It might be hard to believe, but when Mark Mathews was a kid, he was terrified of the ocean. He faced that fear, dove in, and became one of the best big wave surfers in the world.

And he didn’t stop there. As an introvert, he was also extremely scared of public speaking.

But as his surfing career took off, he realized he could create a second career on stage, speaking about facing fear. So he once again faced his greatest fears and learned the skill of public speaking.

Have listen to one of the most insightful interviews ever about facing fear and developing a callus to what spooks you.