The Chief Speaks

The CEO at another board meeting.

Brodie Carr is the ASP’s CEO. Before that, the 37-year-old goofy-footer was the Sports Business Manager for the Sydney Olympics, and was involved in running Australia’s National Basketball League. He was headhunted to Coolangatta at the end of 2004, smack bang in the middle of the Dream Tour’s golden era. Andy Irons and Kelly Slater were going head to head, the surf was pumping (rememeber when Teahupo’o used to have the Top 45 shitting themselves?) and the global financial crisis was moons away.

Five years later, Wayne “Rabbit” Bartholomew has stepped aside as figurehead and president of the ASP, the surf companies are feeling the pinch as global purse strings tighten, and ESPN has entered into vigorous discussion with Kelly Slater’s manager and a sports promoter about starting a new tour, in direct conflict with the current one. Things aren’t blissful on the Dream Tour, but so far Carr isn’t losing sleep over the breakaway movement.

ASL spoke to Brodie in Hossegor, France, where he is based for the European summer.

Interview: Chris Binns   

As far as the ASP is concerned, what’s going on with the proposed alterna-tour?
I met with them in California, and since then we’ve had a board discussion about the tour concept. As far as the ASP goes, and its stakeholders, the surfers and events, we’re all waiting to find out more information. So far we really don’t have enough to form an opinion on whether it’s good or bad for pro surfing. We’re not trying to be protective of the ASP, we’re thinking this could be good for pro surfing, so let’s consider it. And if it’s not, then we’ll make a decision when we have more information. But we don’t have that yet.

I’m sure if you talk to the surfer’s reps, Mick (Fanning) and Kieren (Perrow), they’ll tell you the same thing, so we’re all just saying, Let’s wait and see what they have to offer.

When you say ‘them’, who are you talking about?
It’s Matt Tinley (former boxing promoter) and Terry Hardy (Kelly Slater’s manager). I’ve asked for more details about who all the players are, who’s backing it, who is behind the scenes, but they haven’t come back to me yet.

When did the ASP find out about this?
Probably four to six months ago a guy from ESPN told me. We were already in discussions with ESPN. Suddenly they said they couldn’t talk anymore as they were entering into a non-disclosure agreement with another group. Then we didn’t hear officially about it from Tinley or Terry until J-Bay.

And now you’ve met with them. How did that come about?
I organized it. I was going to America anyway, so arranged to meet over there. There are so many of these things that come up every year. This one’s got a bit more work that’s gone in, and obviously Kelly’s behind it, but there are so many every year that we can’t afford to stop what we’re doing every time to chase people down and find out what they’re up to. It’s up to them to come to us a little with their plans and how they see it working.

“Kelly says he comes to us a lot. He doesn’t. He’s invited all the time, he could come to surfer meetings, and he doesn’t that often. There’s a bit of a myth that Kelly’s’ been bringing these problems to us for a decade.”

What were your first thoughts on leaving the meeting?
At the end of the meeting they asked what I needed, and I told them I needed more information. They didn’t give us enough to form an opinion on whether their plan is good or bad. First thoughts? Good meeting, good to meet them and put names to faces, although I knew Terry already, now we need more information. Everyone’s waiting on depth and detail, and until we get that no one knows if this can or can’t happen. There’s been a lot of talk, but nothing’s happened.

Are you in regular communication with Terry Hardy now?
We had an ASP board discussion last week to sort out our stance, and we sent Matt and Terry three questions we needed answers for, before we can proceed with anything formal to move forward. So we’re waiting. I’ve been sent a non-disclosure agreement to sign, so we’re reviewing that legally, and waiting on the responses to our questions, which will break down for us what our further response should be.

“They’ve made it clear their tour is going to be THE tour. It’s going to be a tour that sits above ours, and if it goes the way they say it will, there’ll be their tour, the current World Tour, and then the WQS.”

What vision do they have for their tour? Running in parallel or a breakaway tour rivaling the ASP World Tour?
They’ve made it clear their tour is going to be THE tour. It’s going to be a tour that sits above ours, and if it goes the way they say it will, there’ll be their tour, the current World Tour, and then the WQS.

That’s a pretty aggressive statement, how do you react to that?
It could be good, (but again), give us more detail. They’ve got some good discussion going with ESPN, a good media agency, a good media outlet. We’re not in a rushed, panicked state, the Dream Tour is far from dead. A lot of people don’t realise we’ve got all of our events signed on for the next nine years. We’ve got media deals in place, we’ve got webcasts. That’s all going, and will go again next year.

For them to go out and source venues, and source judges, work out who’s qualified and who hasn’t, that’s not something you can do overnight. Until they’ve got more meat on the bones, we’re not jumping up and down and panicking. We’re relaxed, we’re keen to learn more.

Comparisons have been made to the Indian Premier League in cricket. Flashy, big money, based on TV and entertainment. Is that how the breakaway tour could work, in parallel?
In my view of sport, there can only be one world champion, and as long as there is only one world champion then exhibition series can exist. But when it gets like boxing, and there are three or four different champions across different federations or organizations everyone gets confused and some of the legitimacy is taken away. So that’s key; to have one world champion. Everyone can go “Kelly Slater has won nine world titles, and is the nine time world champion.” Like that, no one else can claim it, or say they won at the same time on a different tour.

The other thing that is very important for a sport is that the career path structure is clear. So a 16-year-old kid knows the steps he has to make to become a world champion. At the moment they know that; you do your pro juniors, you do your QS’s, you qualify for the World Tour, you’re on, you become world champion.

If you break that up with another sport that selects people, with no qualification process, everything goes pear shaped. One world champion, one career path.

Spoken to Kelly lately?
Last time was the day I left LA. I don’t think we’ve spoken for a week. We’re on good terms, we get on fine. We share some of the same frustrations; he’s just at a different place to where we’re at. Some things we agree on, some things we don’t.

How many of Kelly’s criticisms (event timing, uneven webcasting, sluggish response to changing needs in the sport) does the ASP think are justified?
I’d have to go through them all and address them individually. He says that he comes to us a lot. He doesn’t. He’s invited all the time, he could come to surfer meetings, and he doesn’t that often. There’s a little bit of a myth that Kelly’s’ been bringing these problems to us for a decade. Sure, we’ve discussed things over the years, but when I sit with the surfers at events, I get 45 different opinions on what should be done, what could be different. You try to harness ideas, and work on common threads when nine out of ten guys say the same thing, and you have to fix them, but when there isn’t a common theme it’s harder to pull together. I could sit down with Dayyan (Neve) and he might say “bro, everyone needs to be wearing pink boardshorts” and that’s great, and we all know Dayyan and love him, but we don’t then run off and make everyone wear pink boardies.

Obviously there are going to be a lot of different opinions from the various tiers of the tour, but Kelly being who he is, his opinion must carry some serious weight.
Of course. Man, he’s won nine world titles, he’s the greatest of all time. When he talks people listen, he has a lot of great ideas and things to offer. He’s quite a thoughtful, methodical guy, he doesn’t just go off on a whim. And down the line there might be someone else in his place, maybe Mick will have won five titles and be the guy who takes over from him. Kelly’s great, great for the sport, and he’s gone about it this way ’cos he thinks it’s the best way. We’ve spoken about it, and I’m definitely not bummed at him at all.

Brodie and Ace Buchan catching up at a Surfline party Stateside. Pic Barrus

You obviously can’t speak for them, but where do the WPS (World Professional Surfers, the surfer’s union) fit into all this?
The surfers are saying they’re waiting for more information, just the same as us. The reps have their meetings with the surfers, and then they loop back in with me with their feedback, but so far they’re saying the same as us, there just isn’t enough information.

There are no secure venues. If I went to (the rebel tour organisers) and said “I want to sponsor an event, what can I have?” They don’t have an answer. There’s no Pipeline, there’s no Tahiti. Imagine you want to sponsor an event, ASL want to step up and sponsor an event, where can you go? Ask them!

Third Ave Burleigh would be pretty good.
Yeah if you suggested Burleigh they’d probably think that was pretty good, but if you ask them what they already have, they don’t know.

“We’re not in a rushed, panicked state, the Dream Tour is far from dead. A lot of people don’t realise we’ve got all of our events signed on for the next nine years. For them to go out and source venues, and source judges, work out who’s qualified and who hasn’t, that’s not something you can do overnight. Until they’ve got more meat on the bones, we’re not jumping up and down and panicking.”

The breakaway tour seems based upon TV coverage, and the resulting mainstream sponsorship pouring money in. Has the ASP courted television recently?
The ASP has assigned and sold the media rights to the events (the surf companies who run them) for three years. The events pay the ASP a fee, and they can go and do what they want with their media. The events then do individual and group deals for further distribution. They agree on a format and style and give it to an agency who distributes it around the world. So the ASP haven’t been doing media or distribution lately. We regularly talk with Fox Sports and Fuel, as they’re our partner on the women’s tour, and I met with ESPN again when I was in California. And you know what, our TV coverage is not that bad. ESPN would be great, and ESPN 1 would be better than ESPN 2, which is where the new guys would go. Don’t think it’s going to go on ESPN 1 with these guys.

The current agreement expires in two years time, but we have a deal with all of the events where, if we get a broader deal we can bring it to them. And they are definitely keen to talk. Billabong might work out a deal with someone and bring it back to us for further consideration. The events know that consistency across the board is important, and they know if you start well at Snapper then that will translate to bigger numbers in Tahiti, and onwards. So even as competing brands they work together if it’s better for the whole.

Is your goal to one day have the ASP website as the one you go to for every event’s webcast? And then maybe a standard TV package available a week or two later?
TV is a great medium, but our core fanbase are in the really young demographic. Not many of them sit in front of the TV, they sit in front of computers. So we’ve been focusing on the web as our preferred medium for a while now. As for the one website, it’s almost like that anyway. Eighty five per cent of traffic to an event’s website comes straight from aspworldtour.com and then they click through. That event website is a standard template, and then overlaid is each event’s graphics. All the streaming comes through one provider, which we negotiate at the start of the year. To put it all on the ASP website wouldn’t really see much change. I think what people want to see is more consistency of commentators, and the production of content.

How do you react when you see the coverage from Brazil?
It’s a little bit frustrating, sure. And I think it’s frustrating for the surfers, and the other events on tour who work hard to build up their image online. For Hang Loose though, their focus is on Brazil, internally, and they get 70,000,000 people watching live on TV. 70,000,000 people watched the final live. Our TV distribution around the world isn’t that bad. And this new tour isn’t going to change that much, it’s a real US tour. What about the rest of the world?

“Everyone’s waiting on depth and detail, and until we get that no one knows if this can or can’t happen. There’s been a lot of talk, but nothing’s happened.”

Do you think the ASP has its hands tied by the big surf brands? Are the companies scared of letting go of the sport they’ve built up?
I don’t know. That’s a question you should ask them. They seem open to doing what’s best for the sport. I don’t really have an answer so I’m not going to try and make one up.

Do you see a day when we have the Mercedes Masters, and the Xerox Classic?
There are two schools of thought in surfing. One is that it needs to go more mainstream, the other is that what we have is pretty special, and going more mainstream is going to cannibalise that. You have to find the sweet spot in the middle so we don’t wreck what we have, so we’re not quick to jump away from what we already have unless it’s going to be great. We’ve taken 30 years to build the sport to what it is today, and yeah, the surf brands have been great and have made this what it is, as much as the surfers, so it would be irresponsible of us to make a decision quickly. We don’t want to rush anything, we want to take our time and assess everything and make sure we’re making the right decision for the sport, ’cos otherwise we might not be able to turn it back again.

Click Here to see what Kelly told Tim Baker about the new tour

Click Here for Nick Carroll's take on the situation

Click Here for ASL's movie about the ASP VS new Tour